[upbeat music]


STEPHEN ROSE: Welcome, and thank you for joining us. This is episode 9 of our "Hybrid work with Microsoft Teams" webcast, and I'm your host, Stephen Rose. Thanks for joining us. We have an awesome day today. We've got an interview with Jeff Teper. We're going to sit down with Kaushal Metha to discuss a brand-new Teams program that you're actually going to want to check out. And, we're going to show you the latest devices from Logitech. So, let's get started. Our first segment today is with Jeff Teper. He is the corporate vice president for Microsoft 365. I've known Jeff now for several years. I worked with him when I was on the OneDrive team. He is an amazing guy. He's been with Microsoft for over 28 years. He oversees Office apps and Teams and SharePoint and OneDrive and Stream, and has been the father, is the father of SharePoint. So, he is someone who absolutely understands collaboration like no one else. So, I want to thank everybody who sent in questions to ask Jeff. So, let's take a look at the interview that I had a chance to do with him yesterday. Hey, Jeff. How you doing? Great to see you.


JEFF TEPER: Good, Stephen. How are you?


STEPHEN ROSE: I'm doing great. It has been so much fun. You and I worked together quite extensively when I was on OneDrive, and I'm now on Teams, and I'm absolutely loving it. And it's such an exciting product. And, you are absolutely in the center of the whirlwind that is Teams and Office and all that great stuff. So I thought it'd be at great to ask you a few questions I have and a bunch that the audience has. So, you ready?


JEFF TEPER: I am. Let's fire away.


STEPHEN ROSE: So, the vision of building Teams as a platform and not as an app: How did you get to that point, to see it differently? And I know your work, and you are the father of SharePoint, and SharePoint was pretty much that. But, knowing to bring that over and how that was going to work-- I would love to understand how you went through that.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, I don't know if most people know, early on, I started out as a developer evangelist for Microsoft. And, one of the things we did early in my career is be part of launching Visual Basic, including Visual Basic for Office. So, the idea that you'd have these horizontal tools but that a developer ecosystem could tailor them for different business processes was something I saw many years ago, and so is when we went and did SharePoint, same idea. Of course, it's an application that works out of the box, but people can tailor it, customize it, workflow sites, and so forth. And so, the Teams team already was on that journey with Teams as a platform, but I was just able to bring experience and passion for this space of, let's make Teams really easy to use for people to collaborate without writing a line of code, but if you want to tailor it for a hospital, for retail, for manufacturing, let's go get those business applications integrated as collaborative workflows. So, and of course our, our ecosystem, our community that advocates for Microsoft 365, that really resonates with them.


STEPHEN ROSE: Absolutely, and we spent our last show, we talked about Oakdale quite a bit, and Oakdale really takes that to the next level--about bringing those tools right there inside and kind of moving it forward. So, what's been the response to Oakdale so far?


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, the idea that you can take a rapid way of building collaborative applications and the workflow around content, whether the content's in Microsoft 365 or some line-of-business system, and then tie that into the experience and into channels and chats and tabs and so forth really resonates with people because people want solutions that are tailored to their need, but they want incredible time to value. And so, Oakdale combined with Teams is exactly what they're looking for. And so the ... it's early days, but I can tell you since we've gotten this out for people to try, it's just hockey sticked. We see . . . I was looking at a list the other day of our top customers for Teams by number of Power Apps they had integrated with Teams, and we've got companies with dozens and some with hundreds of Power Apps that they've built integrated with Teams, and we think Oakdale is just going to expand that even further.


STEPHEN ROSE: That's awesome. I know in the past--and I've been involved in these meetings and they're tremendous-- when you start to look at the next year and what engineering's going to do and how to prioritize, you, of course, spend a lot of time looking at things like UserVoice and votes and how that comes. We take a look at top customers and what they're asking for, and then what it takes for customers to move from third-party products over to ours. So, my question to you is how do you . . . Take a step back. One of the things I love is you've said that engineering is like a piece of string: If you pull it this way to do something, something has to fall off. So, how do you balance that evolutionary features that you have to have to move things forward versus revolutionary features, things that people aren't expecting that will delight them or surprise them or open up new business opportunities? How do you approach that?


JEFF TEPER: Yeah. No, I've always believed you need a portfolio of investments. We've seen this in Teams-- you remember this in Windows and OneDrive-- that the most important thing is the fundamentals: performance, reliability, security, et cetera. And that is the biggest . . . by far the biggest investment we're making in Teams in Microsoft 365. Some of it's under the surface, and you never see the blog post around it, but that is the biggest investment. But we also need to do a lot of things on sort of end-to-end scenarios, tying together Microsoft 365. So, picking one that's close to home for us, document sharing in Teams between the OneDrive team and the Teams team, making that really seamless end to end is a focus area. But then in our portfolio, we've got to have, to delight customers, to address unmet needs, to frankly leapfrog what else is out there, you've got to have something in your portfolio that's a new approach to an implicit customer problem. And so the one that we hit on it's ... Yeah, probably our best example is Together mode, where we saw, early in the days of work from home with COVID, that people were losing engagement and feeling isolated and we thought, Gee, wouldn't it be fun to put them into one virtual space? And so we did that, and some people said, "Hey, that was great, I love that." And other people said, "You should have done FeatureX, instead." And so I think ... I always approach it in look at any team ... once the team's of a certain size, do we have most of the team on fundamentals? Are we completing the end-to-end scenarios across Microsoft customers want from us? And then, do we have enough capacity to be innovative? To do things that nobody's actually asked us for explicitly but the technology makes possible and we can supply delight and surprise people.


STEPHEN ROSE: Awesome! All right, we've got some questions from folks who have written in, we got a ton. I picked some of my favorites. I'll give you an easy one: Where do you get your teal shoes from?


JEFF TEPER: I went to Vans' custom shop. And it's funny, I ordered both the SharePoint teal ones, and I have Teams purple ones now. The OneDrive ones I scanned in the OneDrive logo and tiled it. And so, that was the one where, there was a little form that you had to fill out about whether you own the copyright to this, and I said, "I guess I kind of do," so...


STEPHEN ROSE: I think you're OK on that one, alright. So the rest of you cannot go make OneDrive shoes or Teams shoes, but you can do the colors, so feel free. Just don't mess with any of our logos.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, and I think when I went with the Teams one, the stock colors were close enough to the Teams "blurple." The SharePoint ones I actually had to scan in the SharePoint logo and extract that color to get it just right because that's how obsessive I am about this stuff.


STEPHEN ROSE: And I appreciate that. It's that obsessiveness that goes across everything you do, and it is one of the reasons why we have hundreds of millions of customers using this product every single day. So, you chat with a lot of customers, and one of the topics that comes up a lot that I get from folks and they wanted to know how you answer this to a customer, which is, How do you deal with Teams sprawl?


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, it's a tricky . . . It's interesting, again, there's some things where I saw the patterns in SharePoint and now I see them in Teams, which is that people create lots of collaborative spaces. And at some level, that's OK because that's kind of the nature of work, that you work on lots of small projects in certain companies or organizations, and they go away, and that's OK. And so, what we talked about, you and I, is we give customers guidance for how to structure their Teams usage, that if it's a durable work group, create a team, and then channels for different topics or subprojects. That's what we do in the Teams org. We have one big Teams team, and then we have channels for engaging with customers, our data science channel, our design channel, and so forth. And so we might have a little channel sprawl, but we don't actually have much team sprawl because we've thought about it. And so, we've got best practices out there we've put, but we'd encourage companies, bigger companies that would have this problem, create an internal user group or community of best practices, where you've got somebody from IT who understands the guidance coming out from us and maybe from different business groups you get a representative set of users. So users in IT can collaborate on what the best practices for when to create a new team and ... because it'll be different in a consulting firm like Accenture versus a pharmaceutical company versus a retailer, and so forth. Some will be ... Some will make sense, that a consulting firm will create one per client engagement, or a pharmaceutical company might create one per drug development.


STEPHEN ROSE: Right. So yeah, it makes sense to think of it like projects, but I agree. And I think a big part of it is education. Educating your users on, hey, here are some guidelines, make sure you search for this first, make sure that there's not already a group created, and kind of go from that route. And then, if there's not, yeah, go ahead and do it, and here's when it's absolute in that sense, so yeah.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, but get a group of people together to share best practices and write them down. Make the five-slide deck or the two-page memo of best practices of how you're going to use Teams, and share it internally. Again, our general guidance is good, but every company is different, so you need to tune it a bit to your ...


STEPHEN ROSE: Absolutely. Plus if they're coming off of a different product, there's a whole other set of learning that has to go with that, too. But that does give you a great opportunity to change the way that you look at the product and moving, too, which is great.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, yeah. As you know, one of the things in our history together, sometimes people will come to us from a file folder-like product, a file server or a Dropbox or a Box, and so, we put in our migration tools just recently the ability to map those to a Teams team because you might say, Hey, you know, we have this big giant file share, and there are all these folders for project X, project Y, and the conversations were disconnected from the content. Now's the time for us to map those folders in a frankly more limited collaboration solution into Teams so you can have the conversations and the content side by side.


STEPHEN ROSE: Absolutely. Awesome. Alright, next question. It's a two-parter: What is the future of private channels? The creation of a separate site for each private channel is causing concern for SharePoint oversight and compliance folks, but we don't want to turn off a feature that is helping adoption.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, I think ... Private channels are obviously here to stay. They were one of the most passionately requested things in UserVoice after the first release of Teams went out. And so, I think the concept is ... not I think it is durable and will be part of Teams forever. It's if you come to us with a long SharePoint history, you maybe have some angst about this "site collection" concept because it used to be a scarce resource. When we re-architected SharePoint for the cloud, we made it possible to have tens, hundreds of thousands of site collections, et cetera. And so, I would tell people not to ... certainly give us feedback about the admin tools you need, but don't think about it the way you thought about it in, say, 2010. The reason we modeled all this stuff on site collections is because it gives you a level of isolation that people want from private channels. People told us they didn't want to just a channel with limited security permissions. They really wanted something isolated. And so that map to site collections and we can, again, make hundreds of thousands and eventually millions and tens of millions of site collections, and it won't be a problem.


STEPHEN ROSE: OK. Well, there you go. So, get up, put the times, look out ...


JEFF TEPER: Yeah. I mean it ... Yeah, yeah. [Stephen laughs]


STEPHEN ROSE: Can you provide indeed any detail on webinar registration process for Teams? We need this feature in order to move at a large number of users from WebEx to Teams, which we love to hear, so thank you.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah. So, we have a lot of integrations for Teams events with various streaming services, various registration platforms, commerce platforms. We've published those out there, and we'll continue to enhance it because people, for these kinds of events, want to mix and match things. But for sure, we need a first-party solution. And so we announced at Ignite that we are going to be bringing to market a more complete webinars solution around Teams. And I'd say you'll see that in the next one to two quarters from us. Might not, probably not make this calendar year because we're coming up on the last few weeks, but not long after that we'll get that out in preview.


STEPHEN ROSE: Awesome. During your career at Microsoft, what is the part or program that you are most proud of?


JEFF TEPER: Wow.


STEPHEN ROSE: Yeah.


JEFF TEPER: I'm trying to ... I would have to say Office 365. When we said we were going to take our server products and refactor them as a cloud offering, make them available to every customer, and change our business model ... change our engineering model from shipping every two years to literally shipping every day so we could get innovations faster to customers, that was hard. It was really hard. We started at, I think the major news around it was 2008 at the SharePoint conference we announced it, and then 2011 June, we announced Office 365, which really mainstreamed it. But it took honestly three, four years after that. So, and it was one where some people got it very early and said, what became the cloud was going to be the obvious thing, but there was also a lot of skeptics, a lot of experts who said, Yeah I don't know. People won't want to run their own servers forever kind of thing. And I just ... We had the vision, we had the grit. It was hard, in the fact, I have this slide that I use in my events in the last few months that says, "We built this together." But if you think about our ability to scale Teams to now 115 million daily active users and billions of meeting minutes, well over a quarter-billion Office 365 monthly active users, we really did build this with our customers-- that we started with our server products, we re-architected them for an elastic cloud service. We had these rounds of feedback, and so I'd look back on that and say, yeah that wasn't easy. That wasn't obvious. There were skeptics. But we did it, and when COVID hit, and we needed to be there for 5x, 10x scale, we were there, so ...


STEPHEN ROSE: It's been amazing how different a place we are now than we were a year ago and how we put big bets on that and said yeah. And then, all of a sudden, somebody came back to us going, oh yeah, we need to do this, and we need to do it in about two weeks. And we're like, OK, let's get it going. We got the resources. We're ready to go. And your team and your divisions did an amazing job on stepping up to make sure that all the promises that we made were there and that people saw it. It's just been amazing to hear how impactful it has been for folks and how people, as we've always said-- you can work from anywhere on any device securely, and they're doing it. And we brought that to fruition, and that's been absolutely, one of the prouder moments that I've certainly had here at Microsoft.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah and it's really rewarding, whether I'm talking to a teacher who is telling me how they're thrilled that they're able to keep their classes going or the leadership at Accenture that now has over half a million consultants around the world using Teams for all their meetings and client engagements and everybody in between. It's really a privilege to get to work on what we work on. And of course, we're far from done, but hopefully people see that we're listening to the feedback, and we're moving very quickly.


STEPHEN ROSE: Yeah, absolutely. You get tons of questions on your guitars, and you never get to answer them because you're always doing keynotes and stuff, so take a moment, tell us what you have behind you. What do you got? I see the Fender, and I see the Rick, so take a moment because everybody is like, Is he going to talk about them? And you never do.


JEFF TEPER: OK. So the red one is a Rickenbacker 12-string guitar. The Beatles started playing with Rickenbackers, and George Harrison got a 12-string that he, I think, played first on "A Hard Day's Night." And lots of people, from Oasis to Tom Petty, have adopted that guitar. Because it's got 12 strings, it's got this chimey sound that's really unique ...


STEPHEN ROSE: That amazing jangle that The Birds had, so many bands have.


JEFF TEPER: Exactly. The Birds, even though The Beatles popularized that guitar, The Birds are the ... "Ticket to Ride" is another one where you hear that jangle played off that guitar.


STEPHEN ROSE: Absolutely.


JEFF TEPER: Next to it is an Epiphone Casino. The Beatles got those guitars for ... and by the way, these are recent models. These are not original. They're the same guitar but made a few years ago as opposed ... And so The Beatles got the Epiphone Casinos for "Revolver," which was sort of a breakthrough album. John Lennon painted his psychedelic a little bit later, then sanded it down. And so if you see the video of "Hey Jude" or the video of "Let It Be" where he's playing "Get Back" on the Abbey Road roof, he's playing a sanded-down guitar like that one. It's a hollow-body guitar, so it sounds great whether it's plugged into an amp or raw. And then, 1960 model--not made in 1960--Gibson Les Paul. Beautiful finish to it, beautiful sound. Many many famous guitarists play that guitar. Slash from Guns N' Roses.


STEPHEN ROSE: Guns N' Roses, sure.


JEFF TEPER: Jimmy Page.


STEPHEN ROSE: All the greats. I mean, let's face it, it is the guitar choice for Rick Nielsen. There's so many who play that. It's just great. What is your ... If you could play any Beatles song just beautifully, the way that you want, which one do you wish that your fingers would work the way you want them to?


JEFF TEPER: I probably spend more time playing "Here Comes the Sun" than any other song. I love that song. If you listen to it carefully, it's ... yeah the whole work ... I totally geeked out. There's this book [Stephen laughs] called "Recording the Beatles" that talked about the studio configuration, all the instruments. The Beatles first brought in a Moog synthesizer for "Abbey Road." And so, a lot of the different sounds that you hear slightly in the background, livening up the guitar, are basically their first use of synthesizers. So that's one. It's a fun sound. As you know, you put the capo on the ... I forgot, the seventh or eighth fret to give it a really high pitch, and it sounds great. And so, every little detail of how George Harrison played that I sort of try to rehearse. I'm not there, but that's one that I focus on a lot.


STEPHEN ROSE: And I will say to folks, and I have all these basses. I'm not that great a bass player, but what I love about it is because I'm not good, I have to try so hard, and when I get stuck in a problem and I really get caught up at work, playing it for a half hour and really focusing on something I want to play and doing it, is great. And it really clears up my brain and allows me to go back to the logical stuff really well. Do you, do you find the same kind of thing?


JEFF TEPER: No, totally. And hopefully on your bass you play my favorite bass Beatles song is "Day Tripper."


STEPHEN ROSE: Yes, absolutely.


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, it's got a classic [humming]


STEPHEN ROSE: I'm trying to do "Paperback Writer," and it's really tough. Some of the fingering's really rough on that one ...


JEFF TEPER: Yeah, that's a song that ... That is an underestimatedly amazing song. It sounds like, well yeah whatever, it's like a pop song. And no, they're that they were ... That song shows how good musicians they were.


STEPHEN ROSE: Absolutely.


JEFF TEPER: And vocal harmonies, as well.


STEPHEN ROSE: The whole song is amazing. We'll have to do a show on our favorite bands ...


JEFF TEPER: A lot of people have said, "Oh my God, get back to Teams and ..." [Stephen and Jeff laugh]


STEPHEN ROSE: I think there's a whole new audience of people saying, I've been thinking about taking up an instrument. I'm going to do it now. If Jeff and Steve are doing it, count me in that. I know how busy you are, so thanks so much for your time, Jeff. This was awesome. And it was great for you to answer the questions and to learn a little bit more about this. This our last show for the season. So we'd love to chat with you again maybe in about six to eight months.


JEFF TEPER: Absolutely.


STEPHEN ROSE: See how things go, maybe after the next Ignite.


JEFF TEPER: Great. Love to hear the feedback on the podcast. It was super fun seeing you.


STEPHEN ROSE: Awesome. Thanks, Jeff.


JEFF TEPER: OK. Thanks.


STEPHEN ROSE: I had such a great time talking with Jeff. I love his passion for everything he does, including his music. And if you watched that closely, you could just see Jeff's face light up when he talks about his guitars. I've had many of you ask me about my basses. So I have a just kind of a throw-way acoustic bass. But I have a... if it will come off my stand, hang on. I have a nice Fender. This is really heavy, big neck so, I like that for a lot of the kind of fun, low-down stuff. For things that are a little bit more delicate, I have the a Yamaha, which just has awesome sound and it's a lot of fun to play with. And my baby: This is a 40th anniversary bass from Rush. This was a 50th birthday gift. It was a limited edition that the band offered. So, a little bit about my basses. So thanks for those of you who have asked. Our next interview is with Kaushal Mehta. He is our principal program manager here at Microsoft. And I'm excited because he is going to talk about a new Teams preview program. So, if you were watching Message Center last week, you might've saw a message coming up going, "Hmm. what is this?" I'm going to go to the interview so you can hear Kaushal talk about it, and what's going to be coming, and I know you're going to be really excited. So let's roll to the interview with Kaushal. I'm excited to announce that Kaushal has joined me today to talk a little bit about an announcement that I think is going to make everybody happy. Kaushal, how are you today?


KAUSHAL MEHTA: Pretty good. How are you, Stephen?


STEPHEN ROSE: I am doing great. Take a moment and tell us about your role here at Microsoft.


KAUSHAL MEHTA: Sure. My name is Kaushal Mehta. I'm a principal PM manager right here in the Teams engineering group. I head the top program for our engineering group, its technology adoption program. So, we work with customers on our pre-release validations and feedback programs.


STEPHEN ROSE: So basically, we give certain customers and very special customers, early access to stuff. Now, the number-one thing that I heard at Ignite and we announced really really cool features is, "I want to play with that, and I want to get to it," and you have a great announcement that's going to make those folks happy. So, why don't you kind of walk us through that?


KAUSHAL MEHTA: Great. Yeah, so for the past few years, we have been working with customers, with a very small number of customers, through our TAP program. And the feedback really was that we couldn't scale enough to cover all the customers. So, within the next few weeks, we are going to announce a public preview offering for Teams. And with that, we are also going to announce channel naming alignment across Office and Windows. So with this change, our customers--specifically, insiders--will find similar names and expectations for similar channels across Windows, Office, and Teams. And with this, our Teams customers will also be able to preview our pre-release features. It will be a self-opt-in program. There is no requirement, there are no participation criteria. IT admins will be able to control the policy, and we'd be able to assign which users should be allowed to see the pre-release features.


STEPHEN ROSE: This is great. So this is going to allow IT pros and developers to be able to test features early, to get in there, to actually play with them. And we also say, if you have a group of early adopters within your company, it's great to give them the early versions of Windows, the early versions of Office and now Teams so that they can start to play with those features and see how it's going to impact users across the organization. So, we're going to be bringing that to folks. So, how can folks learn more? I know we're not saying, that does not start today. It's going to hit the next few weeks. But, where can folks learn more about that when it's the right time?


KAUSHAL MEHTA: Yep, great question. So just last Friday, we released the Message Center post announcing that we'll be doing this middle of November. And throughout the month, the changes will be rolling out. So, the policy change will been rolling out the same time, and then the client beds will be getting updated, as well.


STEPHEN ROSE: Awesome. And I know we'll have a Tech Community post also that will dig into this and walk folks through that. So there you go: A chance for all of you who have been saying, "I can't wait to play with XYZ feature, no matter what it is," you're going to get a chance to do it early. So, thank you, Kaushal. Thanks to the engineering teams who've been hearing this feedback that you're going to give folks the same level of access that they currently have with Windows and Office. I'm super excited. Thank you.


KAUSHAL MEHTA: Thanks, Stephen.


STEPHEN ROSE: So, Kaushal and I chatted, as you saw. He did let me know this morning that that program will be available right at the end of this month or beginning of December. So certainly keep an eye out for that. If you're not familiar with the Teams Tech Community blog, you can go to aka.ms/teams-techblog when that becomes live. So, we're really excited to bring that TAP program, the earliest access to see all those cool new features much earlier to you, which is great. For our last segment, before we jump into it, I do want to thank all of our unboxing sponsors this season: Polycom, Bose, Jabra, Logitech, Acer, and Dell. And you can catch all of those videos in our Extras area. The folks at Logitech sent us the newest version of the BRIO webcam, which has a great new price point, which I'm really excited about, and their new Zone wireless headset. So I did, I had a chance to play with those and do an unboxing, so, let's take a look at that footage. All right, our good friends at Logitech have sent me two devices this week. One of these is already my favorite. It is the Logitech BRIO webcam. I love this webcam. It is really nice. It's got great feet, so it hangs on to your monitor really nicely. But what it is all about is the picture. This is a 4K ultraHD with 5X zoom, auto-focus. It supports HDR and what they call RightLight 3. It's got a 65, 78, and 90 field of view, and it's fully certified for Windows Hello, which is great. So, you can turn off your internal laptop webcam, close the lid, and every time you walk up have your PC automatically recognize you and log you right in. Of course, it's fully certified for Microsoft Teams, and it does work on a Mac. Of course, the Windows Hello feature won't work. And it does come with a privacy screen if you'd like to go ahead and have one. Now, what's really great about this is, I have bought mine about a year ago, and it was pretty expensive. The great thing is the price on these is now down to $199. And I will tell you it's absolutely one of the best webcams that you can buy. It's what I use. It's when you see my show, what I'm using. So, I highly encourage you to check it out. Sometimes, they are a bit on back order. Logitech assures me they're working on this and are making them as quickly as they can. The other thing is something brand new. This is the Zone wireless headset, and what's great about this is, it's super light. This is only 6.4 ounces. It has a swing-down boom that works either way, and they have it set up where if you want, you can simply, if you want to mute your call, flip the boom up. And then, when you're ready to talk, flip it back down, or you can use the Mute button. Up and down and you'll notice right there, dedicated Teams button, which is great. So you can answer your Teams calls directly here. Volume up, volume down. Full ANC. We're looking at about 15 hours of talk time and a full charge in about two hours. Bluetooth 5. You have your Bluetooth pairing button. They look really nice. I love the idea of this, the cable sort of being wrapped up in this sort of Alcantara sort of fabric. But the thing that I really, really love about these is that once you fold them up, sorry, I'm doing it wrong. Once you fold them up, you can stick them on a Qi wireless charge pad and charge them right up. And I absolutely love that. Now, I went out and bought a wireless charge pad. I already had one. They run about $15, but it's great that you don't have to sit there and plug in the USB-C cable. You can just put it right down on the same charger that perhaps you're already using for another device and charge them right up. It does come with a dongle, and they have one called the Unifying Dongle that allows you to connect up to six Logitech devices. The regular dongle, of course, allows you to connect up. And one other thing I really love about this is that they have both a desktop and a mobile companion app rather than one or the other. So, that is the Zone wireless headset, the Logitech BRIO from Logitech. Great stuff from them. And if you're looking to work on Teams and be, look good and sound good, these are two great devices for you. Great stuff from Logitech. They also sent me their new MeetUp room system, which I've not had a chance to set up, yet. I just got it, but I will. And my goal is to perhaps even record some shows from this in January. So, really excited to get this set up here on my big TV over in the corner and come to you next season for that. So this is our last show of the season. We'll be back in January with all new episodes, talking about all the great new Teams stuff leading up to Ignite in the spring. Of course, if you have any comments, questions, show ideas, you can contact me @StephenLRose on Twitter. We want to thank you all for joining us this season. Before we close out, I do want to take a moment and recognize a great friend of the show and a close personal friend of mine, Chris Jackson did pass away last week. It was a, it was a really, really rough week for all of us here on the show. Chris has been on several times. He's been a friend of mine for 12-plus years. We've traveled the world together. And losing him, I know, is just affecting everybody in the community. He was well loved. He was a great guy, and it's hard to talk about this, but we did get a chance to put together a quick little video in memorial to him, and we'll also put up a link for the Chris Jackson Memorial Scholarship Fund. If you'd like to check that out to keep him alive, but we want to thank Chris first time on the show, and we'll miss him. So we'll see you in January. Thanks so much for joining, and stay safe. We'll talk to you soon. [soft music playing]